Forum Entomologi Italiani

Leptidea duponcheli (Staudinger 1871) ???

Hi, am i right with my determination of the picture?

Thank you

Well I think it cannot be a L. duponcheli first of all for the under-hindwing pattern and than for the geographical range (L. depuncheli is found in Macedonia but not in Bosnia).

I assume it can be a summer male of L. sinapis or a L. juvenica. This species are quite similar but I think it can really be a L. sinapis for both the availability and the more pale under-hindwing pattern. Furthermore the L. juvenica have a more "color block" design in which only the submarginal spaces 6 and 7 are light, like the discal spaces 2 and 3 (and 4) and a big part of the cell. In L. sinapis all is more variable and pale.

_________________
Jedermann kennt den Kohlweissling

(E.J. Reissinger, 1983 in prefaz. Eitschberger, 1984)

E' la prima volta che sento nominare Leptidea juvenica, puoi cortesemente darmi/ci qualche notizia in più?
Ciao Lucio

_________________
A VOLTE E' MEGLIO TACERE E SEMBRARE STUPIDI CHE APRIR BOCCA E TOGLIERE OGNI DUBBIO Oscar Wilde

Ciao Lucio, guarda visto che la conversazione è in inglese se non fa nulla la continuo in inglese.

First of all I made a repeated mistake: it was Leptidea juvernica Williams, 1946, not juvenica .. ahaha XD Sorry !!!!

The species was considered until the past year as a subspecies of L. sinapis (L. sinapis juvernica), this year Dinca et al. discovered some differences in the DNA sequence meanwhile they was analyzing the cariotype of the sinapis-reali-complex of Leptidea. L. juvernica was discovered as a third species of the complex, more closely related to L. sinapis than to L. reali.

L. juvernica is sympatric with L. sinapis but not with reali. However the biogoegraphy of the species is not at all clear. The ganitalia of L. juvernica are identical to that of L. reali (and different to that of L. sinapis), but in the cariotype L. juvernica have more similitudes to L. sinapis than to L. reali.

In any case it's very hard to identify the species from the both external character and genitalia.

From 1993 to 2006 was discovered five subspecies (thinked to be subtaxa of L. reali) that now belong to the taxon juvernica

_________________
Jedermann kennt den Kohlweissling

(E.J. Reissinger, 1983 in prefaz. Eitschberger, 1984)

Grazie Arturo,
nel frattempo ho letto anche sul web notizie in merito; quindi se ben ho interpretato visto che non sono ancora riuscito a trovare un esemplare di L. reali tra le mie Leptidea è impossibile che ci sia una L. juvernica, ma nel caso riescissi ad identificare una L. reali come la distingua dalla L. juvernica ?
Ciao Lucio

_________________
A VOLTE E' MEGLIO TACERE E SEMBRARE STUPIDI CHE APRIR BOCCA E TOGLIERE OGNI DUBBIO Oscar Wilde

Questo te lo scrivo in Italiano .. ahah XD La questione reali vs juvernica è solo geografica (per ora almeno)

_________________
Jedermann kennt den Kohlweissling

(E.J. Reissinger, 1983 in prefaz. Eitschberger, 1984)

Ah si chiaro, a meno che tu non disponga di attrezzatura per l'analisi del cariotipo ...

_________________
Jedermann kennt den Kohlweissling

(E.J. Reissinger, 1983 in prefaz. Eitschberger, 1984)

Thanks a lot, Arturo, for your detailed explanation.
I will correct determination to L. sinapsis/juvernica.

Ciao

..yes, i know the cabbage white

ahahahah XDDDD Oh yeah !!!!!

_________________
Jedermann kennt den Kohlweissling

(E.J. Reissinger, 1983 in prefaz. Eitschberger, 1984)