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Carabus (Procerus) bulgharmaadensis E. Bodemeyer, 1915... ssp.??? - Carabidae

27.IV.2003 - TURKEY - EE, Erdemli env.


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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:01 
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:?
TURKEY - SE, Icel Prov., 12 km NW of ERDEMLI,
Ciris env., 27.4.2003 I.Trojan lgt.
( - after 3 days intensive storms and rain, collected during soft rain with start of sunshine )


Cavazzuti 2011.pdf [265.05 KiB]
Downloaded 185 times
female
female.jpg
male
male.jpg

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gomphus
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:10 
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hi ilja

Carabus (Procerus) bulgharmaadensis s.l. (cat. lobl&smetana treats transversalis as ssp. of scabrosus, i don't agree)

can you give a photo of head + pronotum from above, not obliquely from rear as this?

p.s. :sh: :p :sh: :p :sh: !!!

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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:15 
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As You can see, its very big problem with correct submission - its not transversalis - according to Cavazzuti - ssp. transversalis is now under :

C.(P.) bulgharmaadensis Bodemeyer E.,1915b: 571
ssp toulgoetianus Deuve, 2002b: 281
= transversalis Csiki, 1927: 37

- and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - its species with crambed bell-shaped pronotum !!!!

This species looks as some C.(P.) syriacus ssp...

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gomphus
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:25 
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i had noticed that when you were sending your message

in fact, transversalis is an invalid name, because of homonymy

however, the true bulgharmaadensis is not completely identical with the form formerly called transversalis, the latter having a distinctly more transverse pronotum (hence its name)

therefore, i'd like to see the real shape of pronotum in your animals; i suppose it's the same of the adana area

p.s. surely you've got an entire box of these :p :p :p , have you not :cry: ?

p.p.s. about your remark, some authors in the past considered "transversalis" as ssp. of syriacus, maybe a correct point of view :roll: ...

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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:30 
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Ivegotn´t home.... :cry:
And, whats about elytral (coptolabroid) sculpture ? :no1:

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gomphus
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:35 
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Acmaeodera wrote:
... And, whats about elytral (coptolabroid) sculpture ? :no1:
tomorrow i'll check the very few museum specimens, yet i think that such a sculpture is shared by all bulgharmaadensis s.l.

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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:45 
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:sh: :sh: :sh:

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gomphus
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 19:52 
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p.s.

waiting for vinicio-eurinomio, i think that at least the species is not doubtful...

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eurinomio
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 22:44 
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gomphus wrote:
i think that at least the species is not doubtful...


la bestia è quella e non ci sono dubbi di sorta, almeno per quello che mi risulta...anche la località sembra corretta.
Cavazzuti quando propose la revisione dei Procerus nel 1989, inserì il bulgharmaadensis come ssp di transversalis.
successivamente Deuve credo l'abbia messo come ssp del toulgoetianus, da lui descritto nel 2002.
adesso Cavazzuti l'ha elevato al rango di specie, declassando il toulgoetianus a ssp di bulgharmaadensis, insieme alla ssp akbesiensis (prima ssp di transversalis).
in buona sostanza il transversalis è stato sostituito a tutti gli effetti da toulgoetianus.
adesso devo purtroppo scappare...approfondiremo il discorso domani; dovesse servire di sentire l'ultima "campana", non credo di avere problemi a telefonare all'amico Cavazzuti.

ciao :birra: :birra:

p.s. in ogni caso è lui. :ok:

@ Acmaeodera

complimentoni...è una bestia molto rara. :bln:
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gomphus
PostPosted: 02/02/2011, 23:27 
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just a remark

the widespread treatment of bulgharmaadensis as ssp. of transversalis is incorrect at all, since transversalis Csiki, 1927 has not the priority on bulgharmaadensis E. Bodemeyer, 1915; therefore bulgharmaadensis may not be a ssp. of transversalis

this, irrespective of being transversalis a homonym and a definitely invalid name

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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 03/02/2011, 8:44 
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:hp: :hp: :hp:
CLEAR !!!! :gh:

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Ivan
PostPosted: 03/02/2011, 12:39 
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Hi,
first of all my congratulation for your success with this very interesting Carabus!
For sure it is C. (Procerus) bulgharmaadensis Bodemeyer, 1915, it is different from ssp. toulgoetianus Deuve, 2002 for some details (longer elytra, less large poronotum). If you need a picture of toulgoetianus I can send to compare.
According Deuve bulgharmaadensis, toulgoetianus, akbesiensis belong to C. (P.) syriacus Kollar, 1843.
Ivan
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ivo
PostPosted: 03/02/2011, 12:53 
 

Joined: 30/09/2009, 19:19
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TURKEY - SE, Icel Prov.,NW of Tarsus,Sarikoyak env.,
Carabus (Procerus) bulgharmaadensis ssp.toulgoetianus :?:


bulghar3.JPG
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Acmaeodera
PostPosted: 03/02/2011, 13:34 
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Ivan wrote:
According Deuve bulgharmaadensis, toulgoetianus, akbesiensis belong to C. (P.) syriacus Kollar, 1843.
Ivan


:ok:

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gomphus
PostPosted: 03/02/2011, 15:30 
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Ivan wrote:
According Deuve bulgharmaadensis, toulgoetianus, akbesiensis belong to C. (P.) syriacus Kollar, 1843.
Ivan

gomphus wrote:
... p.p.s. about your remark, some authors in the past considered "transversalis" as ssp. of syriacus, maybe a correct point of view :roll: ...

;)

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