Forum Entomologi Italiani

Good day, dear colleagues!

Last year, I was with my friend in the north-east of Armenia, near the border of Azerbaijan.
Luck smiled and I found it interesting beetles.
Present to you the new subspecies Procerus caucasicus from Armenia.
Procerus caucasicus antonkozlovi (Cavazzutti, 2014).
The first adults came to my friend Anton Kozlov.
Mr. Cavazzutti studied them and described a new subspecies.

Nice one, Tigran ! I did not have that much luck

ssp....where is the difference between other ssp of caucasicus ?

Hi Zdenko.

You were in the north of Armenia? These beetles from northern Armenia.
Entomologists basically go to the south Armenia. In Syunik (Goris) lives Procerus caucasicus fallettianus.

The question is very handy. The first time I took the beetle, immediately thought that it a P. c. colchicus.

After that, I posted the first two samples Anton. Before sending, I made a comparison with the samples P. c. fallettianus.
This beetles differs from the structure of the pronotum, body size, structure of the male genitalia and the environment.
Was initially compared with P. c. colchicus from Georgia. It turned out that these beetles vary in size and structure of the pronotum. Of course, the structure of the pronotum is often used to sign subgenus Procerus, but I was not convinced. I defended the fact that it is a local leash race P. c. colchicus.
Then, an analysis of the structure of the male genitalia, and this was shown a deviation from P. c. colchicus.

However, this fact also remains for me is not very convincing. I conducted an analysis of the range of this subspecies. Using revision Zaitsev on subgenus Procerus from Caucasus, collection material from the Institute of Zoology of Armenia and a monograph on the Yablokoff-Khnzoryan from carabidaes of Armenia.

It turned out that of the terrain where these beetles, no instance in the collection. The area is isolated 2 mountain ranges from the rest.
After, published an article describing P. Cavazzutti. It is given a diagnosis of these beetles.

I must say that there are inaccuracies in the article concerning the ecology of these beetles. I personally believe that in the description of the taxon should have the possibility of a detailed description of the ecology of the beetle. Especially if a local beetle and can not actively migrate. studying the ecology can shed light on the status of the taxon.
In the new season, I want to collect the larvae of these beetles and send material to genetic analysis.
I think that this will give a more detailed answer.

From P. c. colchicus this subspecies differs genitalia, the size and shape of pronotum, it it shorter.

From P.c. fallettianus differs primarily obsolutley isolation, lower angles of pronotum and wide body.

This subspecies is a hygrophilous, avoid open spaces and not Vysk rises in the mountains. Tamed to a certain nutrient database, powered endemic snails Helix buchi and its area coincides with the area of this particular species of snails.

credo che, per dissipare tutti i dubbi, sarebbe il caso di avere la descrizione originale di questa nuova specie.
domani sera vedrò di contattare l'amico Cavazzuti e farmi mandare il pdf della descrizione.

I read the original description. I have it available in electronic format.

In the description of mistakes concerning the ecology of this subspecies.
Those interested can read in a magazine Lambillionea CXIV, 114ème année, N° 1, Avril 2014

CAVAZZUTI, P., Contributo alla conoscenza di Carabus (Procerus) caucasicus Adams (1817) in Armenia. Descrizione di due nuove sottospecie (Coleoptera, Carabidae) : 37-42

Hi Tigran

Yes, I was in the NE too, N/NE from Sevan Lake. But like I said, no luck and not too much time to play with Carabids...

Next time amigo, next time

Thanks for the explanation ! So, basically...crippled caucasicus Nice beast though !

Ciao ciao

...and I m wondering, why is it not called "tigrankredjyani" ??? That is a bit " F " over...Anton is nothing just a dealer and hasn`t got anything to do with this...

And why they should be named after me?
Anton is not only the dealer, he was a collector of specialized subgenus on .........
I only found bugs and gave information on their ecology, distribution.
Furthermore, in my insistence my name was not mentioned. Can you clarify this with Anton, if you are so confused.

To give him his due respect, since people do not just collect interesting beetles, and even engaged in their learning.

Hello to Everyone,

Dear Friend Tigran, many thanks for your post.

To Zdeno: from what reason you write here the discrediting dirty words about me? Who to you granted the right to offend me?
We aren't familiar with you!
I'm simply dealer? I'm nothing? Who are you to write such impudent and disgusting words about me? You are a boor and the impudent fellow to write bad words behind the back of the person! If to you is what to show, write to me directly!

By the way, to Zdeno, I have a huge collection of Procerus, more than 600 PCS in my collection. I have big collection of different insects.
And in this summer I was in Turkey again (3d time) and discovered a new Procerus from Turkey.
I made huge work for last year with Pierfranco Cavazzuti about Procerus. For last year we described 4 new subspecies of Procerus. 2 from Armenia:
Procerus caucasicus antonkozlovi (Cavazzuti, 2014)
Procerus caucasicus tatianagorokhovae (Cavazzuti & Kozlov, 2014)
and 2 from Turkey:
Procerus bulgharmaadensis ludademae (Cavazzuti & Kozlov, 2014)
Procerus bulgharmaadensis kozloviorum (Cavazzuti, 2014)

If you have interest, write to Lambillionea about such articles. If anyone has interest, I can send information for private using too.

What made you for last year, person (Zdeno), who said that I'm nothing?!

I think that serious adults people have to think by head before to write the impudent discrediting information!

Have a good luck to everyone.

Regards,
Anton.

P.S. Here I want especially to thank my GOOD Friend Tigran for help given them in work on Procerus of Armenia!

@ Anton
da quello che sono riuscito a recepire col traduttore online, mi sembra che ci sia stato un fraintendimento...in ogni caso non è questa la location per litigare e dare del "cafone" ad un altro membro del forum, per cui invito tutti alla calma.
Zdeno, sempre se ho capito correttamente, alla fine ha scritto che sei un commerciante di insetti (senza peraltro, credo, alcuna intenzione di offenderti); la cosa è verissima e basta seguirti su fb e su Ebay per verificare gli esemplari che proponi quotidianamente.
mi auguro e desidero che non ci siano ulteriori repliche e/o spiegazioni pubbliche in aggiunta a quello che è stato postato fino ad ora; se vorrete continuare a discutere con toni accesi o anche solo chiarire le vostre posizioni, siete pregati di farlo privatamente e non qui.

grazie

If a person other than the study also sells them, there is nothing to ill treatment.

Anton, do not take it as an insult. Zdeno also trades and studying beetles

Gentlemen, if someone has an opinion about the taxonomic position of the Transcaucasian Proceruses, is a specialist in ground beetles studied zoogeography Transcaucasia, then welcome to the discussion.

Tigran & Vinicio did understand it right. Anton, sorry you felt offended ! It was not in my intention ! What I was questioning about was, if Tigran collected these specimens or if it was sold to you and it was named after you. That you weren`t in Armenia to collect them by yourself...that was my wondering, not a statement. I don`t like these things myself, that` s why I have ASKED . If I would collect something new, give it to, say Rapuzzi and he would name it sp. rapuzzi, I would feel " f " over. That was my meaning and question about. If this is the case, Tigran deserves applause, not you. At last, if you - in English - say nothing just an dealer, it doesn` t mean that you are nothing, what it does actually mean IS, that you are only dealer - nothing bad about it. English can be complicated if you don`t know how to use it. Google translator doesn`t help too much. It is not Russian or Slavic language where we are home at

Like I said, very nice beast !

Piece to Russia !

Dear Friend hello,

All is Ok'.

To Zdeno: Dear Friend, when Tigran offered me these specimens, he thought that this is colchicus. I received these specimens and I feel that this is not colchicus, about it I said to Tigran. I met with Sergey Murzin, he some think and then said, that this is colchicus. I wasn't agree with colchicus. I prepared genitalia of colchicus, fallettianus, caucasicus and this interesting subspecie and comparison and saw big difference in genitalia and I made all measures. After all this work I send full information to Pierfranco Cavazzuti with information about locality, ecology. He agreed with me that this is new subspecie of Procerus. I'm honesty person, I said about this immediately to Tigran. Tigran is my very good friend and I said to him named this Procerus in honour of him! But Tigran wasn't agree categorically! :-( I said full information to Pierfranco Cavazzuti and he named this beetles not only in my honour!!! I'm Anton Kozlov. My Father named me in honour of his Father (my Grandfather). If you saw article about description, you can see, that this Procerus named in honour of my Grandfather and as a result in my honour too! So interesting situation! All work was made in 2013 year. In that year was 100 years from Birthday of my Grandfather and 25 years for me! I very much RESPECT MEMORY and NAME of my GRANDFATHER!!! He is a Hero for me!!! He passed a Great Patriotic War (1941-1945). Stalingrad, Kursk, Kaliningrad. He was the commander of division of communication in the firing line. My Grandfather died in 1956 year, when he was 43 years old from set of the wounds got during war. My father stores a set of medals which my grandfather received during war. I didn't know my grandfather, but stories of my father and grandmother, mass of medals, showed me his Greatness! Before and after war my grandfather was the teacher of literature and russian language. Stories of my father about my Grandfather always inspired me and admired and helped me in difficult moments of my life!!! As I think about name of this Procerus. This only for me and for everyone other!!! Procerus caucasicus antonkozlovi (Cavazzuti, 2014) on 99% in honour of my Grandfather!!! And only 1% in my honour! This is full truth and I want that everyone know this!

Have a good health and good mood for everyone.

Greetings,
Yours Anton from Moscow.