Turkey eastern, Tatvan env. near Nemrut Dagi, 13.7.2005
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female pronotum |
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female P. lefebvrei |
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| Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=16942 |
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| Autore: | Dave [ 30/01/2011, 23:57 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey eastern, Tatvan env. near Nemrut Dagi, 13.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:03 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus lefebvrei (Marseul, 1856) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey eastern, Tatvan env. near Nemrut Dagi, 13.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:10 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus lefebvrei (Marseul, 1856) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey eastern, Tatvan env. near Nemrut Dagi, 13.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:12 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Pionus lefebvrei (Marseul, 1856) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey eastern, Tatvan env. near Nemrut Dagi, 13.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:16 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus besicanus (Fairmaire, 1855) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey central, Göreme env., 14.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:19 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus besicanus (Fairmaire, 1855) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey central, Göreme env., 14.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:21 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus besicanus (Fairmaire, 1855) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey central, Göreme env., 14.7.2005
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| Autore: | Dave [ 31/01/2011, 0:23 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Prionus besicanus (Fairmaire, 1855) ? - Cerambycidae Prioninae | |||
Turkey central, Göreme env., 14.7.2005
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| Autore: | Isotomus [ 31/01/2011, 10:26 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Prionus lefebvrei (Marseul, 1856) ? |
Sorry David, but with these pictures is not possible to give a name to yours Prionus except for the present female. In my opinion Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) (or Prionus sbg Mesoprionus as you like) in my opinion (and not only my opinion) = Prionus lefeburei (Marseul, 1856). Your specimens are probably all Prionus (Mesoprionus) besikanus, but best distinguishing characters are the shape of tarsomeres, their inferior surface, number of segments of antennae in both sexes, not visible in your photographs. |
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| Autore: | Daniele Sechi [ 02/02/2011, 8:51 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae |
Ho unito tutti i messaggi in un unico argomento, la femmina a cui fa riferimento Gianfranco (Isotomus) è il primo messaggio della discussione. Spero comunque che Dave possa ripreparare gli esemplari e inserire nuove discussioni con i particolari richiesti da Gianfranco per l'identificazione di questi splendidi Prionini. 
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| Autore: | Xylosteus [ 02/02/2011, 10:34 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae |
Dear David, about the locality Tatvan env., Nemrut Dagi do you mean Nemrut dagi (= mountain) in Adyaman province or Nemrut Golu (= lake) near Tatvan in Bitlis province? In any case I believe that the specimens posted from this locality belong to Mesoprionus persicus (Redtenbacher, 1850). The other specimens from Goreme (Central Anatolia near Kayseri) must be Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855). Best regards, Pierpaolo |
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| Autore: | Centrotoma [ 02/02/2011, 14:42 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae |
I collected these bettles and it´s meant Nemrut volcano near Tatvan. Beetles were collected at light of car during a very short stop at about 22.30 p.m. along the road from Tatvan to SW, close to Tatvan (aprox. 38°30'25.36"N, 42°13'38.33"E according to Google Earth) 
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| Autore: | Dave [ 02/02/2011, 22:21 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae | ||
Gianfranco Please, what should I take a picture of determination?I determined from the antennae and shield (pronotum). What is tarsometer? Tarsus? Feet? 
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| Autore: | cosmln [ 02/02/2011, 22:48 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae |
Dave ha scritto: Gianfranco Please, what should I take a picture of determination?I determined from the antennae and shield (pronotum). What is tarsometer? Tarsus? Feet? tarsomer = article of tarsus |
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| Autore: | Isotomus [ 03/02/2011, 12:17 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Mesoprionus besikanus (Fairmaire, 1855) cf. - Cerambycidae Prioninae |
Dave ha scritto: Gianfranco Please, what should I take a picture of determination?I determined from the antennae and shield (pronotum). What is tarsometer? Tarsus? Feet? Dear Dave, the following characters are necessary for a correct identification of these Prionini. Antennae of 11 or 12 segments in both sexes or 12 segments in male, 11 in female (e.g. in P. coriarius), lamellate (or imbricate) or not(e.g. in M. besikanus); lobes of third segment of tarsi deeply divided or not divided internally, more or less acutely angulated or rounded apically, and so on. The key proposed in the paper you mention are not reliable; punctuation of elytra and pronotum as well as the shape and size of lateral spines or teeth of pronotum are very variable. Moreover, this paper raised to species level (without any remark) some taxa which are recognized as obvious synonyms (Callergates akbesianus of C. gaillardoti; Prionus schaufussi of P. coriarius) and not listed Mesoprionus asiaticus and M. persicus certainly occurring in Turkey. |
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