Forum Entomologi Italiani

Even if I have not any taxonomical experience about this matter, I totally agree Gianfranco's opinion: neither hard, nor discrete differences were ever used to distinguish subspecies and even species within many Dorcadion species groups.
As fa as "ljubetense group" concerns, I think the best way would be to organize a "sampling group" with all of us who will have the opportunity to catch any of the species involved. Each one of the group, when in the field, will preserve some freshly collected specimens (or even only a single leg of each specimen) in alcohol, hoping such material will be used for a systematic revision based on molecular sequences. We could ask our contacts to cooperate, too: I'm sure that a significant amount of material of different "taxa" would be available in a reasonably short time.
By my side, I am planning to spend a couple of weeks in Greece on early june, and for sure I will try to sample kaimakcalanum and hopefully purkynei, too. Moreover I could ask some friends of mine to cooperate gathering additional material, too.

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Maurizio Bollino

I'm IN

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Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci
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cosmln's place - my blog
just insects
Dragonflies of Romania

Pedestredorcadion ljubetense "sampling group":
Maurizio Bollino
Cosmin Manci

......Anybody else?

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Maurizio Bollino

i'm thinking at Dorcadion in general, not sure how much I will be able to go also in Greece (and specially in that area).

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Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci
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cosmln's place - my blog
just insects
Dragonflies of Romania

I know your main destination is different

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Maurizio Bollino

Good morning folks ! Hmmm, I always thought, detemination from copulation organs should be only method what can tell something for 100% . I have read many papers about DNA tests and after that, I wouldn` t say, this is only way how we can distinguish sp. and ssp. I have spend many hours talking about this with A. Cotton ( Papilionidae specialist ) and other guys and they said, DNA tests should be only 1 of XY keys how to determine specie, but not only 1 .
Yep, I have read some of these Mikhail` s works...well

Gianfranco, what are your suggestions then ? Only barcode ? This " walking in deep waters " is really bored

Hey, you said you`re going to Peloponesse ! Well, in that hotel on the top they having good whiskey, so I m gonna try it . Maurizio, bring something nice from Italy....for drink

if will be after me... will go tomorrow
and if we will meet there (anywhere), I promise that will bring something from Romania too , but not for me... I drink only Coca-COla, beer if it is hot outside and maybe a glass of vine

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Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci
**********************
cosmln's place - my blog
just insects
Dragonflies of Romania

I said I'm going to Peloponnesos on early MAY, while I'll be in central Greece on early JUNE.
About something from Italy to drink.... do you like red wine? Pay attention, it is quite strong!!!

OT: So, do you know my friend Adam Cotton? Nice!!!

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Maurizio Bollino

Cosmin

Maurizio insectnet No, actually I supposed to go there last year, but after that fighting in Bangkok we decided not to...since then I have problems with communication with him....emails getting back, errors....

Seriously, if it will help to sort this situation with gr. ljubetense out, I m for it !

Ps1: drinks for sure has to be there

Ps2: bring someone Mr. Sama there

I agree absolutely with Maurizio Bollino. The "big" specialists of Dorcadion s.l. group would try to cooperate with other collectors to get together a big number of Dorcadion s.l., and than get together their colections to have the bigger number possible of Dorcadion s.l. species togother, and discussing together and combining ther minds obtain a serious and global viewing work. But nowadays, I'll be sincere, this is not possible because of the distances and because of the rigid and imperialistic point of view of some Dorcadion specialists.

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Riccardo Poloni
La dignità degli elementi
la libertà della poesia,
al di là dei tradimenti degli uomini
è magia, è magia, è magia...
Negrita, Rotolando verso sud

What kind of specialist? The "russian centralizer specialist"-like or the "open mind italian specialist"-like?

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Maurizio Bollino

ALL specialists, russians, italians and spanish ones

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Riccardo Poloni
La dignità degli elementi
la libertà della poesia,
al di là dei tradimenti degli uomini
è magia, è magia, è magia...
Negrita, Rotolando verso sud

Wow, I am sure that after some wines, wiskeys, Becherovka, Retsina and (why not), Raki, the taxonomy of Dorcadion will appear much clear

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Gianfranco Sama

"Benedetto colui che ti aiuta a correggere i tuoi errori invece di scagliarteli contro"
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Gershom Sholem

Ohh

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Riccardo Poloni
La dignità degli elementi
la libertà della poesia,
al di là dei tradimenti degli uomini
è magia, è magia, è magia...
Negrita, Rotolando verso sud