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| Dorcadion (Pedestredorcadion) veluchense (Pic, 1903) - Cerambycidae http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=32053 |
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| Autore: | claudio sola [ 16/03/2012, 1:23 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Dorcadion (Pedestredorcadion) veluchense (Pic, 1903) - Cerambycidae | ||
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| Autore: | zdeno [ 16/03/2012, 12:57 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Caro Claudio. For me it is a beautiful maschio of Dorcadion ( Pedestredorcadion ) veluchense ( Pic, 1903 )  
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| Autore: | Phytoecia [ 13/05/2012, 23:21 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion | ||
Hi Collegues! They can be Dorcadion taborskyi Heyrovsky, 1941 but I see D.veluchense similar as following specimen: http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/rus/pedestdn.htm - D.veluchense - (last line) det.Danilevsky http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id101628/ D.veluchense It belong to group II: ossae-taborskyi-veluchense Stripes are divided [1] so it can be rather D.taborskyi: Dorcadion (Cribridorcadion) taborskyi Heyrovsky, 1941 D. lianokladii Breuning 1962 D. margheritae Breuning 1964 D. joanninae Breuning 1967 D. wewalkai Breuning 1974 (four times described by Breuning as different species (1962-1974!) According Pesarini Sabbadini 2007 this species distributed widely: nomo Grevena: 4 km a Sud-Ovest di Krania; n. Joanninà: Milia, Metsovo, Passo Kataras (loc. typ. di D. margheritae); n. Trikala: Koridallos, Piniada; n. Karditsa: M. Karava; Ftiotide: Domokos, Stilida, M. Eta (loc. typ. di D. taborskyi), Paliuri (in vicinanza del loc. typ. di D. Iianokladii), Makrakomi (in vicinanza del loc. typ. di D. wewalkai); Focide: Kastelli, Elikonas. Attribute [1] - taborskyi [2] - divided stripes can be taborskyi and veluchense [3] - interesting detail. Pesarini Sabbadini clear: "Quanto alla superficiale somiglianza con D. veluchense, con il quale D.taborskyi coabita al Passo Kataras e sulle pendici del M. Karava nel Pindo centrale, la distinzione delle due specie è del tutto agevole in base alla conformazione della fascia suturale, normalmente conformata in D. taborskyi e sostituita in D. veluchense da un paio di fasce presuturali fortemente accostate alla sutura, che di regola è priva di fascia, anche se talora presenta una fascia sottilissima". D.taborskyi is variable species. Determination need confirm. Regards
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| Autore: | zdeno [ 14/05/2012, 0:38 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Jacek, it cant be taborskyi for sure  . And taborskyi aint really very variable - have seen/collected/revised them hundreads from many places...Btw, taborskyi belongs to ossae group and veluchense to septemlineatum group which is characteristic with 7 stripes ( 2 extra sutural bands ). I have seen a few taborsky with something what looked like these 2 extra sutural bands, but they were almost invisible and much slimer and most in females what is characteristic for all Pedestredorcadion group. And there is still difference in body shape. P.S. Zin.ru and Danilevsky co are absolutely useless with connection to European species of Dorcadions ! |
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| Autore: | Phytoecia [ 14/05/2012, 12:27 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
1. zdeno ha scritto: P.S. Zin.ru and Danilevsky co are absolutely useless with connection to European species of Dorcadions ! Do you suppose that it is not D.veluchense >> http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/images/d004.jpg "D.veluchense" det.Danilevsky is very similar as "ours" strange specimens from first post. I agree with You  that it can be D.veluchense - perhaps m.peristericum BREUNING, 1946 (it was my first idea... )Cita: Breuning (1962) p.157, key: 359. Auf jeder Decke eine falsche helle Suturalbinde (es ist in Wirklichkeit eine Praesuturalbinde, die sich basai zur Mitte der Deckenbasis zu biegt)........................................ D.velchuense peristericum BREUN. and: 122. Decken mit einer falschen Suturalbinde (in Wirklichkeit handelt es sich um eine Praesuturalbinde, die sich basalwärts gegen die Scheibe zu biegt und die Basis zwischen der Dorsalbinde und dem Schildchen erreicht . . . . ...... .. ..... 108. D.velchuense PIC and p.314: m. peristericum BREUN. Dorcadion (Pedestredorcadion) veluchense PIC m. peristericum BREUNING, 1946, Misc. Ent, XLIII, p. 106. Wie die Stammform, aber die Dorsalbinde rückwärts frei endigend. Moreover Pesarini & Sabbadini 2007 p.73, key: Cita: 12. Elitre con fascia presuturale ininterrotta e ben distinta (gruppo di D. septemlineatum) ........................................................................................ veluchense Pic Elitre prive di fascia presuturale o con fascia presuturale incompleta o più o meno largamente interrotta da macchie di tomentosità nera .......................... 13 and here will be taborskyi... Zdeno, have you (or did you see) the same D.veluchense as Dorcadion of Claudio? Regards!
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| Autore: | zdeno [ 14/05/2012, 13:21 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Good morning Jacek. I will try to reply on your questions. - first photo is definitely something from septemlineatum group : septemlineatum vs veluchense. Collecting datas are needed. - citate from Andrea`s and Carlo`s work about that presutural band : I respect these guys very much. They are my teachers, but nobody is 100% perfect. " presuturale band unbroken for septemlineatum group " : thats not always right ! - yes, I have seen veluchense with " broken band "...a few collected by myself ( later will do photo for you ) and f.e. 1 is here : http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id101628/. Im going there again in 2 weeks time - esp. for these... Septemlineatum group is characteristic, like I said before, with 2 extra sutural bands, which hasnt got any other specie in Greece. Sp septemlineatum has both, well, all bands much wider and veluchense slimer. And body shape. "septemlineatum " - they look like you stud up on them  , much wider body. My opinion...maybe I m wrong...if you want to be 100% sure, send that photo to Andrea and Carlo...
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| Autore: | Phytoecia [ 14/05/2012, 13:30 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Thank You! I agree with yours opinion!
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| Autore: | claudio sola [ 13/10/2012, 13:32 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Ancora nessuns determinazione ? claudio sola ha scritto: :no1:
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| Autore: | zdeno [ 22/10/2012, 11:10 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: dorcadion |
Dorcadion ( Pedestredorcadion ) veluchense ( Pic, 1903 ) 
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| Autore: | claudio sola [ 24/10/2012, 23:47 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Dorcadion (Pedestredorcadion) veluchense (Pic, 1903) - Cerambycidae |
Grazie Zdeno
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