Forum Entomologi Italiani

Guido, thank you for posting those photos. I think that you have determined this specimens properly. I had a problem with the determination of specimens caught in Greece (the same as Maurizio's). I was thinking it might be P.scutellatus, but I had problems because of the picture of paramers shown by Baraud (40).
Additionally Baraud writes about the occurrence of this species in the Peloponnese and Crete, and I've caught the specimens in the mainland Greece. However, it is only a drawing figure, maybe I'll have the opportunity to see specimens such as yours or Baraud's. This might only be a variability.

Dear Jacek,
you are right it is non so easy to identify the Pygopleurus as they show quite wide degree of differentiation in the paramera from different populations and also within a population.
If we do not want to end with a species by locality we have to consider the species in its complex.
That why I am reluctant to identify Pygopleurus on photos because I like to compare the specimens with different populations I have as reference.
Also some of the drawing provided by Baraud are some time not very realistic but we are still grateful to him for the revision he did.
I like your morphological analysis!
Ciao, Guido

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Guido Sabatinelli
Museo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzera
http://www.glaphyridae.com
http://www.scarabeidi.it

Jacek, Guido,
just to let you see if parameres of such population show any variability, I am attaching here some shots of three different specimens. However I can see, some variability occurs within the population. I have no material to establish if more variability occurs between different populations.

_________________
Maurizio Bollino

Here the image of the female elytra goes

_________________
Maurizio Bollino

Thanks Maurizio,
indeed some variability is evident and one of these specimens you posted is much similar to the specimens identified as P.scutellatus by Baraud I posted yesterday. We should also note that none of these specimens is not matching perfectly with the drawing from Baraud...
In any case, for a final opinion, 9-17 July I will be at the Geneva Museum and I will compare these specimens with the large series from Petrovitz collection.
ciao, Guido

_________________
Guido Sabatinelli
Museo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzera
http://www.glaphyridae.com
http://www.scarabeidi.it

Carissimi, si tratta in realtà di P. diffusus, che è molto più... diffuso e comune dello scutellatus. Infatti, a parte la coincidenza dei parameri (la posizione e l'orientamento della carena longitudinale delle due specie sono realmente diverse, come si vede nei disegni di Baraud), P. scutellatus ha tutti i peli apicali delle elitre neri, mentre in questi si vede chiaramente che ve ne sono di bianchi. I parameri di P. diffusus hanno comunque una certa variabilità intra ed inter-popolzionale, ma senza averne a disposizione lunghe serie non sono mai riuscito a capirci qualcosa.

Dear all, this is P. diffusus, which is surely more common than scutellatus. Actually the longitudinal carina of the paramera is diagnostic and the drawings by Baraud are quite correct. In addition, P. scutellatus has the apical hair of the elytra completely black - there is no presence of whitish hair as in this one. Paramera of P. diffusus are however somehow variable both within and between populations.

Thanks Guido, thanks Maurizio!

However, I have a problem with a female too. Why doesn't this female belong to the group III in the Baraud's key ? And there are some troubles with Baraud's drawings of valves too. Baraud has done a great work ofcourse, but as long as my comparative coolection is far from being complete, there will be some troubles with his keys.
The Baraud's neotypus is in Genova collection, among this Petrovit's series. Guido, let me know your address on priv, I'll send you a pair of may specimens from Domokos pass.

Hi Marco, thanks for your opinion!
P.diffudud was my first type, but there is the same problem with Baraud's drawings of paramera. Is it something other ?

Guido, both types are in Genova!

Jacek, you are correct in observing that the drawings do not perfectly match Baraud's drawings. Anyway, you should not take for granted that those drawings are perfect. In many cases paramera are actually significantly different from the drawings. This is partly due to lack of accuracy in drawings, partly due to true variability in species.
If you try to identify Eulasia s.str. with paramera, you will learn that the minimal differences observed in Baraud's revision are actually useless, including the apprently most different paramera like those of E. cornifrons. This is due to a noteworthy variation in the paramera. A certain degree of variation is observed also in Rudeulasia, as me and Guido discussed in the description of E. rittneri, and I know it within populations of Pygopleurus: I could observe in P. akbesianus, for example.

As for the greek species we are talking about: I can exclude it is P. scutellatus. I know this species and the aedeagus do match that drawn by Baraud, in addition the hair is completely black - as it is said Baraud revision.
By exclusion of all other species, it can be only P. diffusus. The paramera, I know, are not perfectly matching. I have seen several such "diffusus" from Greece, mostly with the dorsal side of the paramera convex instead than straight, and with a poor longitudinal carina.
Since this is quite a common and widespread species, my hypothesis is that the drawing by Baraud is not very good - or that he unluckyly chose a quite abnormal paramera to draw.
However, there is still the possibility that "diffusus" is composed by different taxa.
A study of several specimens coming from many different areas of Greece (and Albania, Macedonia, etc.) plus the study of the type specimens can solve these doubts... in the meanwhile they're for me diffusus.

and now comparing with the specimens in my collection I confirm that Marco is right: it is a Pygopleurus diffusus. Ciao, Guido

Just to confirm ...... your confirmation, genitalic valves of females match Baraud's drawings of diffusus, too.

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Maurizio Bollino