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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 10:50 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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f.izzillo
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 11:55 |
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Iscritto il: 22/12/2009, 13:31 Messaggi: 9646 Località: Napoli
Nome: Francesco Izzillo
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Acmaeodera ha scritto: Si, no problemo... But Im out of home, I would make it at evening... Ok, grazie.
_________________ Francesco Izzillo
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 16:51 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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Maurizio Bollino
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 17:13 |
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Iscritto il: 25/11/2009, 9:31 Messaggi: 8154 Località: Lecce
Nome: Maurizio Bollino
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Obviously I am not experienced with Buprestidae, but looking at your images it seems that octodecimguttata has 4 lateral spots and degener only 3. Is it a stable character?
_________________ Maurizio Bollino
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 19:18 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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Of course, but its not stable marker for diagnosis - some specimen have 3, other 4... its only reduced coloration... Most important is position of first lateral spot... But sure we can say that A.degener have always biggest and more glowing yellow spots... It is just the first thing, you will notice immediately...
_________________ AcmaeoderaAcmaeoderini Orbis, Buprestidae, Scarabaeidae acmaeodera@seznam.cz http://www.acmaeodera.cz
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Julodis
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Inviato: 23/11/2010, 22:58 |
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Iscritto il: 30/12/2009, 22:20 Messaggi: 31564 Località: Roma
Nome: Maurizio Gigli
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Acmaeodera ha scritto: Probably, therefore, still no description of these new species, were both in the history of the validly described. We can wait only some new work in which the clear assignment of these two ssp.
1. A.octodecimguttata octodecimguttata 2. A.octodecimguttata quattuordecimpunctata 3. A.degener degener 4. A.degener mlokossewiczi - no photo ( Ivegot not ) This arrangment is new for me! There are papers sustaining this systematic reassignment? The last paper I have concerning also these taxa is the World Catalogue by Bellamy (vol. 1, 2008), and these species/subspecies are considered valid: Acmaeodera (Acmaeotethya) degener degener (Scopoli, 1763) Acmaeodera (Acmaeotethya) degener mlokossewiczi Semenov, 1895 Acmaeodera (Acmaeotethya) degener quattuordecimpunctata (Villers, 1789) octodecimguttata (Piller & Mitterpacher, 1783) is considered simply a synonym of degener degener. I think that, without a published revision, we must use these names.
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 24/11/2010, 9:46 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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A.degener and A.octodecimguttata both with their subspecies are 100% valid species since their descriptions, but whole time was in every literature bad interpretation...(by the way, - this fact discovered at the first time my friend Milan Štrba from Slovakia ) ( same situation, as was with f.e.: A.vetusta and A.theryana ) Its only problem with redescription of their sottospecies (quattuordecimpunctata, mlokosewiczi) in some revision, which was started in 2008... - Its my job Maurizio, I cannot wait on some new paper.... I must respect "lady Nature"...
_________________ AcmaeoderaAcmaeoderini Orbis, Buprestidae, Scarabaeidae acmaeodera@seznam.cz http://www.acmaeodera.cz
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cosmln
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Inviato: 12/12/2010, 17:07 |
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Iscritto il: 26/03/2010, 14:55 Messaggi: 5900 Località: Romania
Nome: Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci
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and this is another specimen, somehow different from the one collected in the same place (4 specimens of degener/octodecimguttata and 1 crinita), under the same piece of bark. will be nice if something on this problem ( degener vs. octodecimguttata).
_________________ Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci ********************** cosmln's place - my blogjust insectsDragonflies of Romania
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 18/12/2010, 21:32 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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AdYRuicanescu
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Inviato: 23/12/2010, 10:00 |
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Iscritto il: 22/03/2010, 10:17 Messaggi: 1147 Località: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Nome: Adrian Ruicanescu
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cosmln ha scritto: and this is another specimen, somehow different from the one collected in the same place (4 specimens of degener/octodecimguttata and 1 crinita), under the same piece of bark. will be nice if something on this problem ( degener vs. octodecimguttata). L’allegato Acmaeodera_degener_C01381.JPG non è disponibile As a first and simple difference is A. octodecimguttata has this spot, that is missing in A. degener
_________________ Ciao Adrian
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 25/12/2010, 20:36 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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Sure, - it governs in Spain, central Europe and SW Balkans... - but problematical determination is on south bulgarian coastal populations of both species...and maybe also on other localities... There is important distance of first lateral spot from humerus.. ( and of course - aedagus of male )
_________________ AcmaeoderaAcmaeoderini Orbis, Buprestidae, Scarabaeidae acmaeodera@seznam.cz http://www.acmaeodera.cz
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cosmln
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Inviato: 25/12/2010, 20:49 |
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Iscritto il: 26/03/2010, 14:55 Messaggi: 5900 Località: Romania
Nome: Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci
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Acmaeodera ha scritto: Sure, - it governs in Spain, central Europe and SW Balkans... - but problematical determination is on south bulgarian coastal populations of both species...and maybe also on other localities... There is important distance of first lateral spot from humerus.. ( and of course - aedagus of male ) I hope that soon will appear also a paper that will support the splitting of this two species.
_________________ Cosmin-Ovidiu Manci ********************** cosmln's place - my blogjust insectsDragonflies of Romania
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 23/08/2016, 22:01 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 666 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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aguaplano
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Inviato: 23/08/2016, 22:41 |
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Iscritto il: 03/02/2015, 11:23 Messaggi: 984 Località: Policoro (MT)
Nome: Giuseppe Cancelliere
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well done Ilja!
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Julodis
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Inviato: 24/08/2016, 7:47 |
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Iscritto il: 30/12/2009, 22:20 Messaggi: 31564 Località: Roma
Nome: Maurizio Gigli
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Ok, I have some doubt, but I will follow this new arrangement. Just a question: I understand how to discriminate A. degener and A. octodecimguttata, but where are the characters to discriminate A. octodecimguttata octodecimguttata and A. octodecimguttata quattuordecimpunctata? So I can rename all specimens in the Forum (and in my collection, too).
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