Specimen 1-Stara Zagora,18.10.2007,near a river bed,length7,5mm
Specimen 2-Stara Zagora,06.11.2009,near a river bed,length 7mm
| Allegati: |
|
|
|
|
| Forum Entomologi Italiani http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/ |
|
| Pterostichus (Argutor) leonisi Apfelbeck, 1904 - Carabidae http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=15315 |
Pagina 1 di 1 |
| Autore: | Joro [ 22/12/2010, 18:21 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Pterostichus (Argutor) leonisi Apfelbeck, 1904 - Carabidae | |||
| Specimen 1-Stara Zagora,18.10.2007,near a river bed,length7,5mm Specimen 2-Stara Zagora,06.11.2009,near a river bed,length 7mm
|
||||
| Autore: | pedux [ 22/12/2010, 19:01 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria |
Lagarus sp. forse il cursor, le elitre muovendo l'insetto dovrebbero essere iridescenti, altrimenti vernalis! cmq aspetta gli esperti!!!! 
|
|
| Autore: | vittorino monzini [ 22/12/2010, 21:31 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria |
Potrebbe trattarsi di Pterostichus Argutor leonisi Abfelbeck |
|
| Autore: | gomphus [ 23/12/2010, 0:21 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria |
first, let's see whether or not i's actually is an Argutor... georgi, please, a detailed picture of fore tarsus |
|
| Autore: | Joro [ 26/12/2010, 22:14 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria | |||
| Second tarsi of the first specimen(sorry,front ones were not well prepared),and front tarsi of the second specimen. Thanks! Georgi
|
||||
| Autore: | vittorino monzini [ 27/12/2010, 11:38 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria |
the tarsi crossed confirm the subgenus Argutor, and I repet: Pterostichus Argutor leonisi Apfelbeck |
|
| Autore: | gomphus [ 28/12/2010, 20:22 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus sp.-Bulgaria |
i'm not persuaded at all  according to original description (i have never seen reliably determinated leonisi specimens), Pt. leonisi differs from vernalis in having pronotum more narrowed both anteriorly and posteriorly, less evenly rounded at sides; elytra narrower, less flattened, posteriorly more convex (and, in comparison with vernalis, i cannot see such differences), as well as having less dark appendages, the three first antennal joints uniformly reddish, while in vernalis 2nd and 3rd are dark, at most reddish at base i suppose  a trivial Pterostichus (Argutor) vernalis (Panzer, 1796), with lighter legs because slightly immature
|
|
| Autore: | vittorino monzini [ 28/12/2010, 21:47 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) vernalis (Panzer, 1796) ? - Bulgaria, Stara Zagora |
I'm not agree, the characters are little appreciated and specimen, I would say, that it is perfectly ripe, so having never seen Pterostichus vernalis with red legs confirmed the previous determination |
|
| Autore: | Joro [ 28/12/2010, 22:22 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) vernalis (Panzer, 1796) ? - Bulgaria, Stara Zagora |
Hello, I found more specimens in my collection with habitus resembling more the first one,and similar data.So if interested I can send some specimens for study to both of you.
|
|
| Autore: | gomphus [ 28/12/2010, 23:35 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) vernalis (Panzer, 1796) ? - Bulgaria, Stara Zagora |
hi georgi i have found a seemingly more accurate description in hurka, carabidae of the czech and slowak republics so, waiting for examination of your specimens, can you make a picture of the head, to show punctuation? according to hurka, vernalis has head between eyes with uniform punctuation, formed by small, shallow puntures; while leonisi has double punctuation, with small, shallow punctures mixed with sparse larger and deeper ones i should add that according to hurka, leonisi is an halophilous species, also apfelbeck (original description) states it is found together with Pt. cursor, while your specimens have been found close to a river bed furthermore, legs color may be not so important, since some color varieties do only locally occur; i have seen e.g. Pt. (Phonias) diligens from finland with bright red legs, a form (at my knowledge) not to be found in italy, where diligens has consistently piceous brown legs; so that, having never seen italian vernalis animals with extensively reddish legs is not enough to rule out their possible occurrence elsewhere waiting for seeing head puctuation ...
|
|
| Autore: | vittorino monzini [ 06/01/2011, 15:15 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) vernalis (Panzer, 1796) ? - Bulgaria, Stara Zagora |
Se proprio si vuole incasellare l'esemplare come specie non ancora identificata con certezza, riterrei più corretto intitolarla: Pterosticus Argutor sp.?. |
|
| Autore: | ricdoc57 [ 07/01/2011, 19:00 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) sp. - Carabidae |
Ragazzi, soprattutto Maurizio e Vittorio, io domani torno a Milano e poi controllerò. In colezione dovrei (il condizionale mi sembra appropriato) avere il leonisi e quindi dovrei poter fare un confrontino. Devo dire che a prima vista gli esemplari qui raffigurati non mi ricordano dei vernalis, ma potrei sbagliare. Saluti 
|
|
| Autore: | Joro [ 09/01/2011, 15:57 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) sp. - Carabidae | ||
Hello, I'm sorry for the late reply,and many thanks for the identification of my Parophonus,esp.to Maurizio for being most active! Here is a picture of the head of the first specimen.
|
|||
| Autore: | ricdoc57 [ 09/01/2011, 19:41 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) sp. - Carabidae |
Well, the photo seems to me to show the double punctuation on the head. Furthermore I have compared the three specimens of P. leonisi of my collection (two from the Czech Republic, one from Georgia) and they seem to me very similar to those here represented. The external characters are not extremely evident, but after all I think that these can really be P. leonisi. If we accept the distribution recognized until now it cannot be exclusively halophilous, since many of the countries mentioned are not on the sea. Have a nice evening
|
|
| Autore: | vittorino monzini [ 10/01/2011, 11:20 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Pterostichus (Argutor) sp. - Carabidae |
scusate! ma dopo la conferma a riprova! di Riccardo, non sarebbe il caso di mettere questa specie fra i determinati? |
|
| Pagina 1 di 1 | Tutti gli orari sono UTC + 1 ora [ ora legale ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|