genere: Polyphylla
letteratura: https://www.uschovna.cz/zasilka/PN7W7EM ... 7CGMGFWWKV
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| Forum Entomologi Italiani http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/ |
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| Polyphylla http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=168&t=86144 |
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| Autore: | Honza [ 21/08/2019, 8:19 ] | |||||||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Polyphylla | |||||||
genere: Polyphylla letteratura: https://www.uschovna.cz/zasilka/PN7W7EM ... 7CGMGFWWKV
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| Autore: | Giuseppe [ 21/08/2019, 8:43 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
 Giuseppe 
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| Autore: | Glaphyrus [ 21/08/2019, 9:26 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
quanto sono belle 
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| Autore: | walking stick [ 21/08/2019, 10:06 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
La P. maroccana e la P. alba sono veramente belle Veramente complimenti per le foto 
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| Autore: | Honza [ 21/08/2019, 13:06 ] | ||||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla | ||||
Ho ricevuto il pacchetto oggi , con una nuova specie Polyphylla (Granida) vietnamica Kobayashi & Fujioka, 2016
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| Autore: | Glaphyrus [ 21/08/2019, 14:26 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
Honza ha scritto: Polyphylla (Granida) vietnamica Kobayashi & Fujioka, 2016 most likely you are correct, but I suggest to check for safe id from P. simoni kontumensis, that can be syntopic and may have also have a striped pattern (although generally not so regular). I treated this topic with Prokofiev in the attached paper. |
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| Autore: | Honza [ 21/08/2019, 17:35 ] | |||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla | |||
Glaphyrus ha scritto: Honza ha scritto: Polyphylla (Granida) vietnamica Kobayashi & Fujioka, 2016 most likely you are correct, but I suggest to check for safe id from P. simoni kontumensis, that can be syntopic and may have also have a striped pattern (although generally not so regular). I treated this topic with Prokofiev in the attached paper. L’allegato UlianaM.2017.Reviewo.Journal.5(9).1-12.pdf non è disponibile Thank you Marco.This weekend I will prepare this piece, take a picture and put it on the forum.I hope the determination will be fine.
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| Autore: | Glaphyrus [ 21/08/2019, 20:20 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
I suspect the supposed turkmenoglui is better identified as olivieri, but it's difficult to say. Unfortunately, I could examine only few specimens of turkmenoglui that can be safely identified as such based the supposed typical appearance of this species, with a lot of white scales (see photo below, from De Wailly Ph., 1997. Revision des especes paléarctiques du genre Polyphylla Harris (Coleoptera Melolonthidae) (3ème partie). Lambillionea. 97: 485-502) and I have none  Aside from this putative diagnostic white cover, its identity is made unclear also by not-so-clear relationship between the two most close species, fullo and olivieri. Baraud, discussed the identity of P. turkmenoglui in a dedicated paper, where he said that "fullo" and "olivieri" merge one into the other, and that they could not be considered distinct (Baraud J, 1980. Polyphylla fullo ssp. Turkmenoglui Petr: une bonne espèces!. Turk. Bit. Kor. Derg.. 4(1): 3-6) However, later (European Fauna, 1992) he treat them as separate species without comments. |
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| Autore: | Honza [ 21/08/2019, 20:50 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
Here as a separate species http://www.virtual-beetle.com/polyphylla.html and here too Löbl I. et Löbl D., 2016 - Catalogue of Palaearctic Coleoptera. Volume 3. Scarabaeoidea, Scirtoidea, Dascilloidea, Buprestoidea and Byrrhoidea. Revised and Updated Edition original description: Petrovitz R. 1965: Drei neue palaearktische Melolonthinae. Reichenbachia 5: 191–195. |
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| Autore: | Glaphyrus [ 21/08/2019, 21:42 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
Sure, everywhere they are considered separate species. But when it comes to state which are the diagnostic charactyers things are not so straightforward. Coming back to your specimen, why do you think P. turkmenoglui rather than P. olivieri? |
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| Autore: | Honza [ 21/08/2019, 22:39 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
It is not my determination, so marked. I'm not sure the determination but the average size of P.olivieri pieces in my collection 35-41 mm. Piece "turkmenoglui" 28 mm. ,and the different shape of the aedeagus. I'm not sure, but I think the original description as: Polyphylla fullo subsp. turkmenoglui Petrovitz, 1965 |
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| Autore: | Honza [ 22/08/2019, 9:27 ] | ||||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla | ||||
P. turkmenoglui - P. olivieri
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| Autore: | Honza [ 22/08/2019, 12:07 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla | ||
Petrovitz R. 1965: Drei neue palaearktische Melolonthinae. Reichenbachia 5: 191–195.
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| Autore: | Honza [ 22/08/2019, 13:42 ] | ||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla | ||
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| Autore: | Glaphyrus [ 22/08/2019, 14:37 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Polyphylla |
Honza ha scritto: I'm not sure the determination but the average size of P.olivieri pieces in my collection 35-41 mm. Piece "turkmenoglui" 28 mm. ,and the different shape of the aedeagus. Hi Jan, according to De Wailly (1992) P. olivieri can be as short as 29 mm, so I think 28 mm size is not relevant for identification purpose. You say paramera are different from olivieri, this is surely important... but I can't see them. For sure, scale cover does not fit appearance so far recognised as typical of P. turkmenoglui, and I have noi idea why it was identified as such. I also note that basal angle of pronotum is also very rounded, not sinuated (compare it to other specimen). Difference is conspicuous, but there is a certain degree of variability in Polyphylla. To sum up, I (we all?) don't know enough about variability of turkmenoglui populations other than the typical one to give a sound opinion. I also own a small specimen from w-Turkey of uncertain identification... I shall re-check it. Finally, note that turkmenoglui was described on a long series from Menemen, then recorded from Aydin, both near Izmir. The fauna of Izmir is rather different from that of Antalya. |
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