Questa non so dove andare Acmaeodera/Acmaeoderella
6/7mm
Grazie in anticipo!!
| Allegati: |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Forum Entomologi Italiani http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/ |
|
| Acmaeoderella (Carininota) flavofasciata (Piller & Mitterpacher, 1783) s.l. - Buprestidae http://www.entomologiitaliani.net/public/forum/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=99019 |
Pagina 1 di 1 |
| Autore: | Dicomed [ 05/06/2022, 10:56 ] | ||||||||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Acmaeoderella (Carininota) flavofasciata (Piller & Mitterpacher, 1783) s.l. - Buprestidae | ||||||||
Questa non so dove andare Acmaeodera/Acmaeoderella 6/7mm Grazie in anticipo!!
|
|||||||||
| Autore: | Chalybion [ 05/06/2022, 18:25 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
La forte sinuatura elitrale subomerale direbbe essere Acmaeoderella sp. 
|
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 05/06/2022, 22:17 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Acmaeoderella (Carininota) flavofasciata (Piller & Mitterpacher, 1783) s.l. Specie ad ampia diffusione, con molte razze descritte. Nella penisola iberica ce ne sarebbero un paio. In generale (nel Mediterraneo, almeno), squame: Acmaeoderella; peli: Acmaeodera. |
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 06/06/2022, 0:09 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Ho dato un'occhiata in collezione, e la dozzina di esemplari che ho di quell'area li avevo determinati (seguendo Cobos 1986) come "ssp. pilivestis" (Abeille, 1906). Sono convinto che in realtà possa trattarsi, come alcune delle altre "razze" istituite per questa variabile specie, di taxa distinti a livello specifico, non ancora ben inquadrati e distinti. Nessuna novità, in queste condizioni versano fin troppe specie ritenute genericamente "politipiche". Ciao, A. |
|
| Autore: | Acmaeodera [ 06/06/2022, 23:28 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Acmaeoderella (Carininota) flavofasciata flavofasciata Piller & Mitterpacher, 1783 In precedenza queste aberrazioni scure dell'Europa meridionale senza disegno sui tronchi erano state classificate con il nome di Acmaeoderella (Car.) deorum Obenberger, 1940 (= syn.) |
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 06/06/2022, 23:53 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Sorry, Acmaeodera, but I don't agree so much... Such a "lumping" of beetle's populations showing distinctive characters, according to me are often just a sort of "speedy step" ro avoid the need of a deeper sight. Anyway, names are just names. But, if I read about "subspecific" treatment by Cobos, then I think that very likely "there's a problem", perhaps yet unsolved. Antonio Cobos had two eyes, but perhaps "composite".... I mean, he had a very rare taxonomical sharpness. Having had a short while of work on Cobos' collection in Madrid, my respect for him has grown rather high. Ciao, A. |
|
| Autore: | Acmaeodera [ 08/06/2022, 12:57 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Of course, - I have given taxonomic and nomenclatural facts from very recent times. I also disagreed with that... It was immediately clear to me, and to other buprestologists, that one species (Deorum) cannot inhabit the area from Gibraltar to Turkey... Thing, according to Verdugo and Volkovitsh, A. flavofasciata ssp. pilivestis occurs in Spain more to the south, and should have a base coloration of dark bronze. I would like to point out that the validity of subspecies of a particular species is really only the opinion of the authors of the publications. The scientific weight of such a taxon (ssp.) is completely negligible. Gradual investigations have revealed that almost all subspecies of A. flavofasciata s.l. , as well as some other species of the subgenus Carininota, produce black aberrations, mainly in the southern regions of Europe, but also further afield in Turkey, Iran, Tajikistan, etc. (Sometimes this also applies to other species of the family Buprestidae - the completely black Chrysobothris affinis or some species of the genus Sphenoptera from the Peloponnese are quite common aberrations there). However, among the "blackened" subspecies of A. flavofasciata or other "blackened" species there are "normally" black species hiding - hence the problems with nomenclature in the past. Moreover, the black colour of "blackened" specimens and "normally black" specimens is always different... It is not yet known what causes this unusual blackening of the imag, black A. flavofasciata specimens have been caught and observed here in central Europe - at the locality with the northernmost occurrence of the species (Brno env., CZE), so it is certainly not an adaptation. Unfortunately, - so far no one has clarified this kind of aberration. |
|
| Autore: | gabrif [ 08/06/2022, 14:58 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Clickie ha scritto: Nessuna novità, in queste condizioni versano fin troppe specie ritenute genericamente "politipiche". Ciao, A. Verissimo. E anche tra i sinonimi junior talvolta si nascondono specie valide... G.
|
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 08/06/2022, 22:21 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Hi again. Cita: It is not yet known what causes this unusual blackening of the imag, black A. flavofasciata specimens have been caught and observed here in central Europe - at the locality with the northernmost occurrence of the species (Brno env., CZE), so it is certainly not an adaptation. There's something "buzzing" in my mind about burnt wood.... Southern Europe is "the country of wild fires", and several bups seem to like wood slightly "lapped" by fire for their larval development, you know. Just an example: years ago, I reared several specimens of the common Acmaeodera brevipes from roots and basal parts of Euphorbia acanthothamnos in Greece, from a garigue that was affected by a blaze the year before. These specimens had strongly reduced elytral maculae. In the surroundings, along the years, I've collected specimens both with or without well developed yellow elytral pattern, but unfortunately I didn't try to relate these differences to burnt areas (..mea maxima culpa...) Moreover, there's another question that I can't drive away from my mind: the blackening of many Acmaeodera or Acmaeoderella species also seem to represent a loss of their typical "Mullerian" mimic habitus. Many species are "protected" by their resemblance with small Hymenoptera, it's well known that their imagoes fly with down closed elytra to show their aposematic pattern even while flying. Well, just an additional one. Acmaeodera (Acmaeothetya) prunneri: in Sardinia the black "form" and the "maculate" one were seen several times mating, therefore..... ????? Bests, A. |
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 08/06/2022, 22:52 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Hi again-again....  Cita: according to Verdugo and Volkovitsh, A. flavofasciata ssp. pilivestis occurs in Spain more to the south, and should have a base coloration of dark bronze. Cobos (1986: 90) writes about the "ssp." pilivestis: ...elitros...azulados o bronceados (en ambos casos igualmente el pronoto)... This means, in his concept, that this "subspecies" can show integumental color both bluish-violet as well as dark bronze, all over elytra and pronotum. Not "bicoloured". Moreover he adds (same page, translated from Spanish): - all elytral intervals weakly convex: typical form (flavofasciata) - elytral intervals 2-4-6 flat, intervals 1-3-5 convex: pilivestis This last seems a bit more "heavy".... Cheers, Clickie |
|
| Autore: | AdYRuicanescu [ 09/06/2022, 10:17 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
I find the body shape more elongate and slender than the A. flavofasciata. Even without yellow marking. |
|
| Autore: | gabrif [ 09/06/2022, 11:01 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Cita: Acmaeodera (Acmaeothetya) prunneri: in Sardinia the black "form" and the "maculate" one were seen several times mating, therefore..... ????? un esempio qui: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/120379198 G.
|
|
| Autore: | Clickie [ 10/06/2022, 0:52 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Cita: I find the body shape more elongate and slender than the A. flavofasciata. Even without yellow marking. Sure, Adrian, you're right. I seem that's a sort of "common ground" among species of the genus Acmaeoderella. Exactly the same happens in A. (Euacmaeoderella) villosula from Crete, Syria and Lebanon, where two "types" (one shortened, another one elongate) seem to be quite discrete. I never tried measurements to get biometric results, it's just a "watch suggestion". I really don't know if such a "character" can be believed as a "flag", to support the suspect of yet undetected taxa.... We are all still facing a great deal of work to be done. Ciao, A. |
|
| Autore: | Dicomed [ 11/06/2022, 8:01 ] | ||||||||
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain | ||||||||
Buongiorno! Grazie a tutti degli interventi. Non sarei mai arrivato ad A. flavofasciata  Io il fatto di essere neri sempre ho immaginato avesse a che fare con il trattenere il caldo, noi dipingiamo le case in bianco e loro ''diventano'' neri per acquisire più caldo possibile ed essere i più veloci. Il mio dubbio tra i generi era proprio il fatto che mi sembrasse più snella e più grande (anche se le misure dovrebbero contare il giusto) Settimana dopo sono andato nello stesso posto e ho presso questi altri individui. 3.VI.22 Maschio 8,5mm Femmina 9mm
|
|||||||||
| Autore: | Joro [ 11/06/2022, 11:13 ] |
| Oggetto del messaggio: | Re: Buprestidae Spain |
Cita: I really don't know if such a "character" can be believed as a "flag", to support the suspect of yet undetected taxa .... My opinion is that the ratio pronotum length/elytra length is a stable quality for a species in most of the families. It can not give you a direct identification but it's always a good test. |
|
| Pagina 1 di 1 | Tutti gli orari sono UTC + 1 ora [ ora legale ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|