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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 7:16 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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Julodis
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 7:19 |
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Iscritto il: 30/12/2009, 22:20 Messaggi: 31564 Località: Roma
Nome: Maurizio Gigli
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Bella bestia! Anche se non è nel mio gruppo di primario interesse, provo un po' d'invidia.
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Anillus
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 8:02 |
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Iscritto il: 18/02/2009, 0:24 Messaggi: 3906 Località: Asciano (Siena)
Nome: Andrea Petrioli
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Julodis ha scritto: Bella bestia! Anche se non è nel mio gruppo di primario interesse, provo un po' d'invidia. ....e io ti ringrazio e ti faccio i miei più sinceri complimenti per gli splendidi animali che ci stai facendo vedere ....a proposito, a quando i Crisidi? 
_________________ ______ Andrea
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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 8:34 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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Anillus ha scritto: Julodis ha scritto: Bella bestia! Anche se non è nel mio gruppo di primario interesse, provo un po' d'invidia. ....e io ti ringrazio e ti faccio i miei più sinceri complimenti per gli splendidi animali che ci stai facendo vedere ....a proposito, a quando i Crisidi?  Grazie, i crisidi per il momento sono in alcool ed aceto.... Ho ancora qualche curiosità nord africana da mostrare e poi oggi preparo le valigie per il "salto in Turchia" con Marco U e Maurizio B.
_________________ Guido SabatinelliMuseo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzerahttp://www.glaphyridae.comhttp://www.scarabeidi.it
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Acmaeodera
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 9:34 |
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Iscritto il: 02/09/2009, 20:51 Messaggi: 670 Località: Czech Republic
Nome: Ilja Trojan
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Anillus
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Inviato: 27/04/2014, 12:14 |
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Iscritto il: 18/02/2009, 0:24 Messaggi: 3906 Località: Asciano (Siena)
Nome: Andrea Petrioli
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Guido Sabatinelli ha scritto: Anillus ha scritto: Julodis ha scritto: Bella bestia! Anche se non è nel mio gruppo di primario interesse, provo un po' d'invidia. ....e io ti ringrazio e ti faccio i miei più sinceri complimenti per gli splendidi animali che ci stai facendo vedere ....a proposito, a quando i Crisidi?  Grazie, i crisidi per il momento sono in alcool ed aceto.... Ho ancora qualche curiosità nord africana da mostrare e poi oggi preparo le valigie per il "salto in Turchia" con Marco U e Maurizio B. Ok!!! Buon "salto" 
_________________ ______ Andrea
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aphodius
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Inviato: 10/05/2014, 12:52 |
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Iscritto il: 16/09/2009, 22:40 Messaggi: 599 Località: Czech Republic
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My colleagues from the Czech Republic, Germany and Sicily are working on the revision of all Mediterranean Bolbelasmus-species, so we'll see what is this specimen (according to my information, my colleague from Prague has the type material of B. bocchus and B. vaulogerii at home)... One thing is clear, B. vaulogerii is the valid species, not only supspecies!
_________________ Daniel
Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. (ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ, 1,9)
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aphodius
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 0:41 |
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Iscritto il: 16/09/2009, 22:40 Messaggi: 599 Località: Czech Republic
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The type specimen of B. vaulogerii (male) from Tunisia has only one simple horn on head while B. bocchus from Spain and Portugal has two horns adjacent - see e.g. the following link: http://faluke.blogspot.cz/2012/03/bolbe ... cchus.htmlSo, it is possible that B. romanorum is the synonym for B. vaulogerii or its subspecies (but let's go wait for a revision).
_________________ Daniel
Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. (ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ, 1,9)
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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 12:03 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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aphodius ha scritto: The type specimen of B. vaulogerii (male) from Tunisia has only one simple horn on head while B. bocchus from Spain and Portugal has two horns adjacent - see e.g. the following link: http://faluke.blogspot.cz/2012/03/bolbe ... cchus.htmlSo, it is possible that B. romanorum is the synonym for B. vaulogerii or its subspecies (but let's go wait for a revision). Thanks, interesting subject. Although i dont know much about it I offer the following two observations: 1. Baraud described (1998) quite well the frontal horn in B.vaulogerii (splitted at the apex) and in B.bocchus (splitted from the base). 2. B.romanorum is possible synonymous of B.vaulogerii?? I dont know the paper, but I suppose that the Authors of B.romanorum compared the Sicilian specimens with both related species and in particular with B.vaulogerii from Tunisia. Isn't? Ciao, Guido
_________________ Guido SabatinelliMuseo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzerahttp://www.glaphyridae.comhttp://www.scarabeidi.it
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aphodius
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 12:24 |
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Iscritto il: 16/09/2009, 22:40 Messaggi: 599 Località: Czech Republic
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Baraud as Arnone & Massa didn't see the type specimen of B. vaulogerii. My colleague from Prague David Král has the type (male) at home (lent from museum), and it has only 1 simple horn (its morphology is identical with B. romanorum, so, B. romanorum is the synonym for B. vaulogerii or its ssp.!). The description in Baraud (1992) is incorrect. Species with horn splitted from the base refer to European B. bocchus (black-coloured body), but north African species with horn splitted at the apex (rust-coloured body) is a species without name, so my colleagues want to name it as B. krikkeni sp.n. - this species is in the photo in the following link under the name B. bocchus (it is B. krikkeni sp. n. in prep. = B. vaulogerii auctorum): http://www.biolib.cz/cz/taxonimage/id12 ... nid=243131However, there is the following question: is B. bocchus from Spain and Portugal inentical with the type material of B. bocchus from Algeria??? B. bocchus was described from Algeria (no more specimens are known from this country) and known also from Morocco, but I have no information about the type from Algeria. So, we wil see after the revision from David Král, Oliver Hillert and Bruno Massa.
_________________ Daniel
Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. (ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ, 1,9)
Ultima modifica di aphodius il 11/05/2014, 13:13, modificato 1 volta in totale.
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aphodius
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 12:41 |
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Iscritto il: 16/09/2009, 22:40 Messaggi: 599 Località: Czech Republic
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However, I don't see good the horn of this specimen from Matmata - is it a simple horn or splitted at apex??
_________________ Daniel
Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. (ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ, 1,9)
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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 19:43 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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aphodius ha scritto: However, I don't see good the horn of this specimen from Matmata - is it a simple horn or splitted at apex?? Hi Daniel, I understand that this couple of specimens might be important. Here below some pictures of the frontal horn clearly apically splitted.
fronto lateral view

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lateral view

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frontal view

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_________________ Guido SabatinelliMuseo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzerahttp://www.glaphyridae.comhttp://www.scarabeidi.it
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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 19:50 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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aphodius ha scritto: Baraud as Arnone & Massa didn't see the type specimen of B. vaulogerii. My colleague from Prague David Král has the type (male) at home (lent from museum), and it has only 1 simple horn (its morphology is identical with B. romanorum, so, B. romanorum is the synonym for B. vaulogerii or its ssp.!). The description in Baraud (1992) is incorrect. Species with horn splitted from the base refer to European B. bocchus (black-coloured body), but north African species with horn splitted at the apex (rust-coloured body) is a species without name, so my colleagues want to name it as B. krikkeni sp.n. - this species is in the photo in the following link under the name B. bocchus (it is B. krikkeni sp. n. in prep. = B. vaulogerii auctorum): http://www.biolib.cz/cz/taxonimage/id12 ... nid=243131However, there is the following question: is B. bocchus from Spain and Portugal inentical with the type material of B. bocchus from Algeria??? B. bocchus was described from Algeria (no more specimens are known from this country) and known also from Morocco, but I have no information about the type from Algeria. So, we wil see after the revision from David Král, Oliver Hillert and Bruno Massa. I think the iconography provided in the paper and here in the Forum ( viewtopic.php?f=166&t=16226&hilit=romanorum) is suggestive that what I collected in Matmata is B.vaulogerii.
_________________ Guido SabatinelliMuseo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzerahttp://www.glaphyridae.comhttp://www.scarabeidi.it
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aphodius
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 21:04 |
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Iscritto il: 16/09/2009, 22:40 Messaggi: 599 Località: Czech Republic
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Hi Guido! Please read better what I wrote. Once again: The type specimen of B vaulogerii Abeille De Perrin, 1898 that is now at David's house (borrowed from the museum) is identical with B. romanorum Arnone & Massa, 2010 at first sight. Your specimen from Matmata is quite different: on the basis of your new detailed pictures I can say: your specimen is B. vaulogerii actorum and thus sp. n. - now without name, not B. vaulogerii Abeille De Perrin, 1898! Your specimen from Matmata could be a paratype in the description of B. krikkeni sp. n. in prep. (if You'll send it to David Král or Oliver Hillert).
_________________ Daniel
Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον, ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. (ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ, 1,9)
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Guido Sabatinelli
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Inviato: 11/05/2014, 21:43 |
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Iscritto il: 28/08/2009, 13:45 Messaggi: 1946 Località: Ginevra, Svizzera
Nome: Guido Sabatinelli
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aphodius ha scritto: Hi Guido! Please read better what I wrote. Once again: The type specimen of B vaulogerii Abeille De Perrin, 1898 that is now at David's house (borrowed from the museum) is identical with B. romanorum Arnone & Massa, 2010 at first sight. Your specimen from Matmata is quite different: on the basis of your new detailed pictures I can say: your specimen is B. vaulogerii actorum and thus sp. n. - now without name, not B. vaulogerii Abeille De Perrin, 1898! Your specimen from Matmata could be a paratype in the description of B. krikkeni sp. n. in prep. (if You'll send it to David Král or Oliver Hillert). Great! Thanks a lot.
_________________ Guido SabatinelliMuseo di storia naturale, Ginevra, Svizzerahttp://www.glaphyridae.comhttp://www.scarabeidi.it
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