Forum Entomologi Italiani

Collected near the river bed.

Hello again,
maybe (maybe!!!!) these are the normal A. viduum.

Ciao
Gabriele

They are the same species?
.... I seem to have the different prothorax

_________________

______
Andrea

the second one is clearly not a viduum

_________________
*****************
maurizio

Right.

So the second one might be A. angustatum Dejean 1828.

Ciao,
G.

i cannot say anything until monday, and here it's not matter of mess in my collection... A. angustatum simply is not to be found there ...

p.s. A. angustatum usually is black with a distinct bluish nuance, yet in your picture it's not clear whether or not this does exist

_________________
*****************
maurizio

Hello
It doesn't have a distinct bluish nuance,it has a green nuance.Found another similar specimen and is greenish,too,but we are not sure this is a constant feature.
Thank you.

Georgi

Hello Georgi,
Schmidt says about the color of A. angustatum just: "Schwarz, manchmal auf der Oberseite mit leichtem Blauschimmer".
I have no better ideas,
Regards
Gabriele

hi georgi
give me some time, in museum we have a lot of specimens determinated by joachim schmidt

maybe comparison may result in something useful

_________________
*****************
maurizio

OK,Maurizio.But I think we should start from the beginning.Maybe both are viduum concerning the same data and similar appearance(and of course,now almost excluding other similar species).

hi georgi

no, they are different: note the different shape of elytral apical edge, in viduum somewhat angulate, in the other evenly rounded, as well as the mid-discal pore of 3rd interstria, touching the 2nd stria in viduum, in the middle (or almost so) of interval in the other

you tell about similar general appearence... this is exactly the problem, a number of Agonum species have "similar general appearance" ...

_________________
*****************
maurizio

siete arrivati ad una (o due) determinazioni?

_________________

Daniele

io me l'ero completamente dimenticato

_________________
*****************
maurizio

Ciao,
quella del primo (viduum) mi sembra ragionevolmente sicura. E' solo il secondo, il problema.

G.

I contacted Joachim Schmidt several days ago.He replyed that first sp. could be A.viduum,second-A.permoestum ,but it is quite unsure from these pictures and most probably an extraction would be necessary,too.